vegans are smarter than meat eaters

[Kendyy]

Here's my stance. I am not a vegan. I have nothing against vegans and am honestly interested in learning about the choice because (and I will be the first one to admit this) I am fairly uneducated on the topic. I am unsure if it's all vegans or just a loud vocal minority but what I am not okay with is when people call others bad/immoral human beings based on dietary preferences.

 

[Icey]

Meats are good idc what you say i will still eat my steak

 

[npeters96]

 

[Icey]

mhm am making steak tonight

 

[pistolsteven]

mhm am making steak tonight

Every single post you’ve posted on this thread has made me respect you more and more.

Anyways Elli there’s no point in debating you on this because it would be the equivalent of talking to a brick wall, nothing will change, and it’s a waste of time. You will still think meat eaters are evil and everyone else will be eating their 10 piece chicken nuggets posting memes on this thread because all and all, this just isn't the place to debate or argue this. Like I said on your unnecessary profile post, you gotta stop arguing this on a minecraft forum. Maybe a carnivore vs vegan forum or subreddit would be the right destination for you, if that even exists lol.

 

[Lividcoffeebean]

So we should stop predatory animals from killing other animals and domestic every animal? You're messing with natural balance, its kill or be killed. Top of the food chain, live with it.

i think factory farming and stuff like that is what's really messed with the natural balance

 

[Aj ツ]

i think factory farming and stuff like that is what's really messed with the natural balance

I mean I've been baiting you this whole time, to quote something I messaged in a DM:

So yeah, I think I am pretty smart.

Believe it or not, I don't care. The more you say stupid things the more people get upset

My entire "argument" started with me saying "I'm smarter than most people" which is not how you win an "argument". That should've been a red flag to start lol

 

[ellilliv]

Here's my stance. I am not a vegan. I have nothing against vegans and am honestly interested in learning about the choice because (and I will be the first one to admit this) I am fairly uneducated on the topic. I am unsure if it's all vegans or just a loud vocal minority but what I am not okay with is when people call others bad/immoral human beings based on dietary preferences.

Thank you for being honest.
But choosing to support a harmful industry when you know it murders and tortures innocent beings that have done nothing wrong and when it's completely unnecessary IS immoral. Tip-toeing around the subject as kind as possible will not have a lot of effect, telling the truth and exposing people's hypocrisies are. Whenever you PAY for a hamburger, cheese, eggs, hot dogs, whatever animal product it may be, then you are SUPPORTING and PAYING a horrific industry and increasing the demand for said products on purpose. So yes, the people who continue to do that, are immoral. Although I haven't referred to anyone as evil, I mean, anyone who would pay for dogs or cats or other pets to be slaughtered would be called evil, so why not the same for people who pay for abusing conventional farm animals?

@pistolsteven it's a minecraft forum with an off-topic section, I don't see why it's a problem. I'll totally discuss and share what happens to animals when you pay for abuse, even on a minecraft forum, because the majority here does that. It's an opportunity for the animals' voices to be heard. And like @Kendyy said, he is interested to learn more, and I'll go into detail about everything he wants to know about veganism if he wants to discuss the ins and out, in a proper way. But I will not hold back when it comes to telling the truth about selfish decisions revolving it.

 

[Agent40]

As I said before. I have a pet snake, I have to feed it dead quails. Once again, that’s my response.

 

[Jinxiest]

Aight i'll bite. First of all veganism isn't ecofriendly nor is it cruelty free... Transporting the food you eat across the world isn't better for the environment in the slightest, i feel like i shouldn't have to go into detail why for this one. The cruelty free part is a load of crap too, the majority of people who harvest these crops at least for the US are undocumented immigrants who are being overworked and underpaid, as well as the fact that thousands of children as young as 6 are having to work to supply for vegan alternatives, but cruelty free amirite? Like theres examples of the poor working conditions were people got acid burns on their hands from shelling cashews or on a larger scale high demand of certain products inflating prices so much that poorer people from the countries they're grown in can no longer afford it E.g quinoa

As for the actual diet/meat side of things here it isn't the production of meat thats the issue its the MASS production of it, the better alternative to supporting industrialised farming is buying from local farms who don't partake in unneccesary cruelty. Purchasing vegetables and other produce from local businesses is also significantly better for the environment due to it not having to be imported or even better grow your own veg go nuts idc.

tl;dr
veganism and mass produce bad, locally sourced produce good

(i also totally forgot to mention forests being cut down to make space for farm lands cos high demand and the fact veganism isnt affordable for most poor people but i cba to go into more detail about that)

DOUBLE also most vegan alternatives are nut based which is a very common allergy which makes it even less accessible for a lot of people.

ok i'll shut up now

 

[ellilliv]

@Jinxiest Finally, someone with an actual argument.

First off, let me explain the definition of veganism.
"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."
(source: https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism)
No vegan will claim that their lifestyle will eradicate all forms of suffering in the world, HOWEVER, it does do it to much larger scale than a standard meat-eater's diet does. I'll tell you why it is more eco-friendly and more-cruelty free.

First off, the cruelty-free part - this one is fairly obvious! When you PAY for a product, that automatically increases the demand for said product. That also includes food. When it comes to meat, dairy, eggs, whatever animal product it is, your money is going directly towards exploiting LIVING BEINGS. Vegans don't PAY for chickens, pigs, cows, sheep or whatever other animal there is to be exploited purposefully. This is a very important distinction. Veganism is cruelty-free to animals in the sense that our money does not go towards such industries.

• When you pay for eggs, you're paying for genetically modified hens to grow so fast their body can't keep up with their weight and get a lot of awful diseases, they lay eggs every day when they naturally do so only once to a few times a month and producing eggs is already a very physically draining process to begin with, male chickens are grinded up alive right after hatching because they're useless to the industry. (https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/egg-industry) (https://freefromharm.org/eggs-what-are-you-really-eating/) (
  "Egg Industry In 60 Seconds)
• When you pay for dairy products, you're paying for cows to be repeatedly raped so they can continue to produce milk for us, as just like any other mammal, they only produce milk when they're pregnant and having babies. Their babies obviously get taken away right after birth because otherwise they'll drink the milk "meant" for us. If the baby is a male, it gets killed almost right away because, again, it is useless to the dairy industry. (https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/dairy-industry) (https://www.theguardian.com/comment...scary-public-farming-calves-pens-alternatives) (
  "DAIRY IS SCARY! The industry explained in 5 minutes")
• When you pay for meat, wether that is bacon, beef, chicken, you're paying for that cow, chicken, pig or sheep throats' to be slit or gas chambered after an already horrible life stuck in tiny stalls living in their own poop and pee, spreading diseases and getting no motion at all. Veganism is totally more cruelty free than any other lifestyle because we don't purposefully pay for these things to happen to innocent animals. (
  Land of Hope and Glory, british documentary) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko Dominion, australian documentary) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8B547L5VkQ Earthlings, american documentary)

All the sources I put are video examples and some articles about each topic.

Buying locally will not be less cruely-free or eco-friendly. The animals on those farms still suffer, and even if they'd have a "good" life before, they're still just products that end up going to the slaughterhouse and die in a horrific way because no slaughterhouse is nice. It's literally in the name, SLAUGHTERHOUSE, that sounds like a horror film in itself.
I know this is an anecdote, but Norway is known as one of the countries in the world with the highest standards of animal welfare within farming, but that's been exposed so many times to be a lie. There was recently a norwegian documentary film about a woman who went undercover on pig farms over a course of several years and recorded everything she saw, and it was BRUTAL. It shocked Norway. Also another anecdote I have is that a local and popular farm outside my city that I used to visit with my school when I was younger, had a huge chicken coop with chickens cramped into just a tiny space on top of each other just for laying eggs, it smelled horrible in there, there were no daylight and the worst of it all, THEY SOLD IT AS FREE-RANGE.

Anyway, buying local meat, dairy or eggs isn't better for the animals or the environment. The animals are still just "products", not individual living beings, and the environmental impact is still huge. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/local-organic-carbon-footprint-1.4389910)
Veganism is proven to be the most environmentally friendly lifestyle one can have because animal agriculture is the world's biggest polluter. (https://www.theguardian.com/environ...le-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth) This is because of all the recourses needed to produce meat, dairy and eggs, considering there are about 56 BILLION FARM ANIMALS, that WE have to feed and water and give space. Keep in mind that animals such as cows and pigs and chickens eat and drink a LOT more than humans do in a day. In order to keep this industry going, they need feed, which is usually grains grown in rainforests, which needs to be cut down to make enough space for it. They're also cut down to generally let cattle graze as well. The majority of cows and chickens and pigs and whatever, even in the UK, Norway or USA, gets fed grains and soy that are grown in poor areas because it isn't sustainable to let millions and billions of animals roam free and eat grass, lol. And even if, they need to a lot more grass than you think, so forests need to be continually cut down in order to make enough room and space and feed for those animals. (https://www.onegreenplanet.org/anim...ses-of-deforestation-and-how-you-can-stop-it/) You see, the majority of our agricultural feed from plants go towards our livestock, not humans, which is why it is so bad for the environment. 56 billion farm animals are a lot of animals to feed, compared to 7 billion humans. Plants are usually quicker and require less land to grow feed for humans with. But with 56 billion animals included in the equation, it literally cannot work in any sustainable way. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4ykcVBOaFE "Not Worth Going Vegan for the Climate?") (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2X8ikpBZkM "
No Baby, No Car, or No Meat? Environmental Study Results") ("Cowspiracy" on Netflix) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGuduhfGSjU "You CANNOT Be a Non-Vegan Environmentalist!")

Some documentaries to watch that covers all of this: Cowspiracy, Food Choices, Game Changers, What The Health, Forks Over Knives.

As for the humanitarian issues surrounding veganism, I'm gonna give you a comparison. There is no way that veganism alone will solve all issues in the world, as I've already said. And what happens to the people you're talking about is horrific. However, people who have to work in slaughterhouses and farms are also usually immigrants and migrant workers who have little to no choice. Working in farms and slaughterhouses can be very traumatic and intense, and they're exposed to diseases and psychological issues from it. Getting acid burns on your hands from cashews is awful, yes, but can you imagine working at a slaughterhouse, slitting live animals' throats or gas chambering screaming animals for a living, that is a horrible life. Coming from an already traumatic life, seeking a better one and ending up in such a horrific work space. No, I'd say that is a lot worse. Also, a lot of the agricultural workers in general that produces feed for the animals we eat, they are really the majority of who experiences these humanitarian issues.
(https://foodispower.org/human-labor-slavery/slaughterhouse-workers/)
(https://www.samwoolfe.com/2012/12/eating-plants-for-sake-of-people.html Quote: "For those who are concerned about global human suffering, they should recognise that by keeping animal agriculture in business, resources are being wasted in order to satisfy the diet of First World countries, at the expense of countries which are undergoing dangerous shortages of food and water. The elimination of the meat industry alone would go towards freeing up land to grow crops for people who are starving. We should really be working towards this scenario since the amount of usable land on Earth is rapidly decreasing.") (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWPsvHeGo9I "Vegan For Human Rights")

Some nice videos covering some of this

101 reasons to go vegan

Best Speech You Will Ever Hear - Gary Yourofsky

As of poor people - rice, grains, beans, nuts, seeds, veggies and fruits are the cheapest foods on the market, wut r u on about

 

[Luke]

This is not me trying to pick a fight or trying to drown out other opinions, this is just my own opinion on this whole thing.

Yes, I see exactly why some people go vegan. Of course, you get that very vocal minority that gives vegans that 'look at me i'm vegan hurdur' look, but yeah, behind that, I do understand the whole point of veganism.
However, I'm a firm believer that humanity comes first - no matter how many animals, plants, etc. may get harmed in the process, I believe that we, as people, are first priority. Yes, you get those really messed up scenarios at some point, but to me that's the same level of publicity as the mouthy vegans - the bad stuff is portrayed that much that the media and whoever else goes up in arms over it since that's the only side of things you hear about.
I've never thought about going vegan, I never really want to in all honesty, I like my steaks and bacon and stuff like that.

tldr, ppls over animals

 

[peach]

i eat animals

 

[ellilliv]

This is not me trying to pick a fight or trying to drown out other opinions, this is just my own opinion on this whole thing.

Yes, I see exactly why some people go vegan. Of course, you get that very vocal minority that gives vegans that 'look at me i'm vegan hurdur' look, but yeah, behind that, I do understand the whole point of veganism.
However, I'm a firm believer that humanity comes first - no matter how many animals, plants, etc. may get harmed in the process, I believe that we, as people, are first priority. Yes, you get those really messed up scenarios at some point, but to me that's the same level of publicity as the mouthy vegans - the bad stuff is portrayed that much that the media and whoever else goes up in arms over it since that's the only side of things you hear about.
I've never thought about going vegan, I never really want to in all honesty, I like my steaks and bacon and stuff like that.

tldr, ppls over animals

So essentially you're saying that you can't support two great causes at once? Veganism is so easy, it becomes a habit just like any other lifestyle where everything goes automatic. It's really just about avoiding animal products, and it's great because you can focus on more than one cause with minimal effort of veganism on the side!

Anyway - humans are animals. As I already stated in my response to Jinx, veganism covers humanitarian issues as well. I'll make a little list, and then I'll show you sources if you need it.

• A lot of factory farms are placed in already poor communities, especially black communities, aka systemic oppression. This is for the most part in USA, but it's no lie that factory farms generally are placed near poor communities around the world. This is horrible, as it for instance spreads diseases to already poor communities.
• The majority of workers on factory farms and slaughterhouses are immigrants or migrant workers who are already poor and desperate, going through psychological issues from previous struggles, seeking a better life in the western world and ending up slitting animals' throats or gas chambering screaming and suffering animals for a living. Studies have shown that they are very likely to suffer PTSD and other psychological issues, and their quality of life is generally really low. They are also very likely to contract diseases from the animals as the living conditions are very horrible. As there are factory farms and slaughterhouses on every corner today, you can imagine how many workers have to suffer in these conditions.
• 56 billion farm animals need to eat and drink every day. This industry in itself, giving them enough food and water, are the biggest reason for deforestation, forest fires, ocean dead zones, extinction, drought, erosion, and so on... which in turn, who would've thought, hurt us humans too! Deforestation ruins a lot of natural ecosystems and gives us less oxygen (duh), forest fires caused by drought because the climate is becoming warmer from the combination of deforestation, melting ice caps releasing harmful chemicals and cows and other farm animals farting all over the place, ocean dead zones becoming more and more prevalent as over fishing occurs all over the oceans because people need their sea-food, but if you believe in evolution at all, we COME from the ocean so without it... well, we will die. Mass extinction occurs from the deforestation and overfishing. All of this is connected to humans because it usually ends up harming all of us in the same smack, especially poor communities.
• The food that farm animals gets fed are grown in poor communities where they get overworked with minimal pay and experience drought and starvation because all the food goes toward western food industry, aka the animals we eat, instead of them.
• Cutting all the farm animals out of the equation, we only need half of all the space we currently use for farm animals to feed all the humans on Earth
• Edit; adding one more thing I just remembered: the majority of our most common diseases and causes of death are caused by animal products, such as heart disease, osteoporosis, alzheimers, obesity... the list goes on.

Since you care about humans suffering too, then veganism is good as well... Veganism really does cover an array of issues.

Edit; read my paragraph on humanitarian issues in my response to Jinx and look at the links I put with it... I use sources to back up my claims, I suggest anyone else trying to argue with me on these issues do that too. @Luke @Jinxiest

 

[BilboCable]

So as someone studying Environmental Sciences, focussing on the broad subject of sustainability, I kinda felt that I had to post here sooner or later.
I think there is no doubt in anyone's mind that for all the reasons @ellilliv stated:

such as animal welfare, environmental reasons and health reasons. A small amount of people in the western world has a genuine reason to not go vegan.

veganism is indeed more moral than eating anything that comes from animals. (Morally superior sounds like a whole different league, so I am not sure if I would support that statement, but you get the point)

However, promoting veganism isn't going to save the world. Everyone going vegan might save it (apart from all the other things we have to do to stop the climate crisis), but promoting veganism will not save our world. My environment is completely filled with all kinds of environmentally-conscious people, so I do live in a bubble, but as someone who still eats meat, I think I can give an honest opinion on why promoting veganism will not change anything.

To someone who eats meat almost every day, which I think is standard in most parts of the Western world, someone trying to convince you to go vegan will sound like a president telling NASA in the '60s that they have to build a colony on Mars in five years. My point is, that is impossible.

Going vegan is all about behaviour change. While I was writing this, @ellilliv responded to an earlier comment. Here is something that I think is important:

Veganism is so easy, it becomes a habit just like any other lifestyle where everything goes automatic. It's really just about avoiding animal products, and it's great because you can focus on more than one cause with minimal effort of veganism on the side!

The thing is, because veganism is all about behaviour change, promoting veganism basically becomes a study of behaviorism. While I did not care enough to find scientific sources for this, I believe it is common sense: humans are super stubborn and will resist any change that seems to far beyond their current capabilities or something that is too radical. Thus, my point about NASA and this also means that I do not agree with the quote above by elli.

Telling people to stop eating meat and even ALL dairy products is like talking to a brick wall. Nothing is going to happen. Yes, what you say is true, but you give people no structure of how to achieve this "superior" lifestyle. Instead, what I think is very important is to focus on reducing the consumption of meat slowly, step by step. Show people how easy it is to eat vegetarian or vegan. Cook them a dish that is so, but do not insist that it contains no meat or dairy products. Just let them enjoy it and tell them afterwards. Show them what a lifestyle like that can be.

In the Netherlands, 'meat-replacers' are gaining in popularity in the past years. Basically, they are substitutes of meat that can be eaten in similar dishes. For example, minced meat in pasta or chicken pieces in Italian dishes. They taste exactly the same. You can talk to people that they can try eating these 'meat-replacers', for example, once a week, to start, and give them ways to explore vegetarian or vegan dishes that are super tasty. Of course, this only works after they have actually experienced how nice these 'meat-replacers' are.

My point is, you can't radically change behaviour. By giving people the tools, skills, and knowledge to change their behaviour little by little, they too can eat in a more sustainable way. Let them start by eating no meat once a week. If they like the food they are eating, they will it eat more often and still keep on exploring new dishes they can try. These small steps will make it easier for people to transform their behaviour, rather than one radical leap that is into unknown territory for most.

TL;DR: behaviour is only changed incrementally, not radically. Promoting veganism isn't going to help a lot, while promoting incremental change in eating patterns will.
Also, I do not mean to insult anything and I do acknowledge veganism is the way to go eventually, but you can't just leap into veganism just like that.

 

[ellilliv]

@BilboCable It's about behavioural change, yes, but before any behavioural change, you need to actually know what veganism is, so I am explaining why it is better in every way essentially. A lot of people convert to veganism quickly after learning about the horrific abuse and mistreatment of animals, the environmental impact the animal agriculture has or how detrimental to the health animal products are. It doesn't have to be the way you say, but yes, that works too.
Plus, diet is a big part of ones behaviour, yes, but it's just habit. Radically changing a habit is totally possible with the right motivation, hence the growing population of vegans around the world.

I actually prefer the method you're explaining in real life, but it doesn't really work over the internet, because I can't cook someone a delicious vegan meal like I can irl. I can show pictures, sure... hell, I just made delicious vegan hot cocoa with vegan whipped cream, but when it comes to strangers, I can't really take the same approach when I want my message across. The animals don't wait, remember, they're the ones suffering and being tortured right now at this moment - our feelings really don't matter in this XD
"boo hoo this gurl on the internet is telling me that i am paying to abuse and torture animals and my feelings are hurt because i wanna eat bacon wweh!!!! ;-;" that's basically what it feels reading the responses.

But yes, you can leap into veganism JUST LIKE THAT! It's just an excuse to not when all the reasons are there, when it's cheap, when we live in a privileged western world with free recipes on our phone, with substitutes in nearly every grocery store...

Anyway, my goal is ultimately to hear what you just said: that it is the way to go eventually. If you know you will go vegan as soon as you can, that is great!! that's my goal. But I don't care for excuses like "it's my habit to eat meat so it will be weally weally diffwicult to go vegan". Because it isn't about you in the end, it's about animals suffering and the environment getting destroyed over your habit

 

[Jinxiest]

Okay first of all I've already touched on how being vegan isn't cruelty free at all, the exact same argument can be made towards the increased demand for fruit, vegetables and other products. Instead of animals, human beings are being exploited. As an example from 2000 to 2015 avocado consumption increased by 300% to 1.9 billions lbs per year or roughly 4.25 billion avocados per year, this has become a massive industry as a result of increased demand globally. The most damning part of this is the contribution to drug cartels in Mexico and across Latin America, when farmers refused to pay gangs their orchards and processing plants are burned down or worse with the avocado now being referred to as 'blood guacamole'. Also the sudden increased demand has resulted in deforestation, resulting in the destruction of ecosystems and contributing to climate change. I had also touched upon other working conditions such as the cashew burns and literal children picking crops. The sudden increased demand has resulted in deforestation, resulting in the destruction of ecosystems and contributing to climate change.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-20/mexico-cartel-violence-avocados
https://ethicalunicorn.com/2018/09/23/how-sustainable-ethical-is-eating-avocado/
https://www.theguardian.com/global-...an-avocados-the-worlds-new-conflict-commodity

Secondly there aren't commercially available genetically modified chicken? There's selectively bred chicken??? but that is a normal thing in a lot of domesticated species, cats and dogs and other animals also get selectively bred to keep their best traits. The issue with the poor treatment of chickens and battery farming in general is also an issue with industrialized farming which is a problem that purchasing produce locally can solve by rerouting funding into businesses that treat their animals fairly.

https://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2008/09/19/genetic-modification-explained/

As for the cow issue they aren't repeatedly raped what??? They give birth to one calf per year via artificial insemination and then produce milk for about 10 months. Calves aren't just removed from their mothers just because hurr durr need more milk for profit, there are several reasons as to why this happens, one of which is to reduce transmission of diseases and also improve the feed intake of the calf. After separation calves do still drink milk or at least milk substitute which still gives the nutrition they require. As for the killing of male cows, yea that happens due to farmers not being able to afford to keep them, this isn't done in cruel fashion though their death are as painless/instantaneous as possible, y'know since doing otherwise is against the law in a lot of western countries.

https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-b...ated-from-their-mother-in-the-dairy-industry/

As for the conditions you mentioned next, this is another issue that links back to industrialized farming yet again, smaller scale businesses get no benefit out of battery farming due to not owning the same amount of animals. Buying food locally is both better for the animals and more ecofriendly due to the reduced amount of goods having to be imported and the better treatment of animals. Also the manner in which the animals are killed really isn't as horrific as you seem to think they are, there are laws and regulations in many countries which prevent animals from suffering unnecessarily when they are killed. It is law that animals have to be rendered unconscious or stunned before slaughter. As for ensuring the food you purchase is up to code you can simply look for logos such as the soil association logo or whatever equivalent y'all have to that outside the EU.

https://www.soilassociation.org/certification/food-drink/what-is-organic-certification/
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/welfare-of-animals-at-the-time-of-killing#slaughterhouses
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32009R1099&from=EN
https://www.animallaw.info/administrative/us-slaughter-humane-slaughter-livestock-regulations

Meat products are undeniably the heaviest producer, however with increased consumption of foodstuffs as you advocate with veganism people naturally cling to luxury or their favourite products, which due to climate cant be grown locally all year round and are imported via air due to perish-ability causing gross environmental damage. Even if everyone were to theoretically go vegan there would still be 56 billion farm animals in the world, they aren't going to magically disappear if everyone stopped eating meat, they'll still need to be culled in order to make space for more land for agriculture and there would be a considerable economic impact caused by distributors of animal products going out of business.

https://theecologist.org/2019/sep/27/agriculture-and-deforestation
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200211-why-the-vegan-diet-is-not-always-green

As for the last part i was just referring to quinoa for that oops worded it weirdly

http://web.colby.edu/st297-global18...g-vulnerability-of-quinoa-farmers-in-bolivia/

 

[ellilliv]

@Jinxiest Let me break this down part by part.

1. I already stated that veganism won't eradicate all issues in the world, but it does do it on a much larger scale. It seems as though you completely ignored what I said about farm and slaughterhouse workers, and you completely ignored what I said to Luke about all other humanitarian issues caused by animal agriculture. There are other industries that needs to be dealt with as well, but that doesn't excuse you from not dealing with others at the same time, such as the animal agricultural industry, which is actually a lot easier to deal with because all you have to do is just not eat or buy animal products, as it is completely based on supply and demand. Also, if you care about deforestation from the avocado industry, you should DEFINITELY care about the deforestation from animal agriculture, as that is the BIGGEST reason for deforestation overall and we have no excuse to continue that as we don't NEED animal products to survive at all, there is no NECESSITY! (https://foodispower.org/human-labor-slavery/slaughterhouse-workers/, https://www.samwoolfe.com/2012/12/eating-plants-for-sake-of-people.html, (
   ) https://www.theguardian.com/environ...le-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
2. There are genetically modified chicken, yes. Since about the 1950's : (https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/the-genetically-modified-chicken-how-we-have-altered-broiler-chickens-for- profit/) The issue with the poor treatment of chickens and battery farming, isn't that people aren't buying locally. Imagine if everyone were to suddenly buy locally, they'd have to end up going the same industrialised way as any other factory farm to meet the consumers' demand, which is absolutely horrible to the animals. The animals are treated the way they are because of the high demand and the suppliers have to breed animals as fast as possible to meet said demand. Buying locally isn't better, and it still exploits and murders animals that isn't here FOR US to begin with. BTW, since you mentioned that vegan food (like grains, beans, rice... you know, really cheap products) are so expensive for poor people, buying locally especially is super pricey, like my god!
3. Cows are repeatedly raped. Your quoted source and what you're saying is just proving my point - they are artificially seminated, which is just a kinder way of saying, forcibly impregnated, to fool the public into thinking it's a kind practice to do. Cows are pregnant for about 10 months. That is almost 1 year. Then they continue to artificially inseminate the cow to continue producing milk, because it is called a DAIRY COW. It can't produce milk if it isn't pregnant. They continue to seperate the mother and calf for every pregnancy, which is just torture for both the mother and calf. If the calf is a male, it is murdered, which IS done in a cruel fashion, BECAUSE IT ISN'T A NECESSITY. They're doing it in a cruel fashion because there is a high demand for it, not because there is a desperate important need for it, people just want their yoghurt and milk in their coffee... Please watch this video
   Spoiler: dairy is scary
   . Watch this video from 15:58, from Land of Hope and Glory, and undercover investigation of farms in the UK, this part covering the dairy industry
   Spoiler: land of hope and glory
   . Then you can tell me if you still think it's not as bad as you think. AND DO NOT REPLY TO THIS SECTION BEFORE YOU DO.
4. Can you give me any examples of these local farms you root so much for? Because as I stated before, even in Norway, a local farm right outside my city, has a huge chicken coop that smelled horrible and with those poor things cramped in a tiny space each, and dared to sell those eggs as free-range... As for how they're killed - let me quote one of your sources (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-and-white-meat-slaughterhouses-standard-operating-procedures
   "For each animal you stun, you must keep records on:
   • electrical stunning - current, voltage and length of exposure
   • gas stunning - gas concentrations and length of exposure") Looks fine on paper, right? Let me show you some actual footage of that process: Land of hope and glory, 13:30 and 14:15
     Spoiler: land of hope and glory
     . It is not kind, it is not compassionate, it is not necessary, it is not pretty. You're defending an industry that tortures animals for a burger or cheese or bacon, out of a want, not a necessity. What happens here is not needed, it is not necessary, therefore shouldn't be supported with your money
5. It is true that foods have to be imported no matter what. The definition of veganism is to avoid supporting the exploitation of animals as far as practically possible. When you stop consuming animal products, you also stop supporting importing a lot of grains and soy imported from other countries to feed the animals you eat, both local and factory farms. Meaning - fruits and veggies will still continously keep being imported, but the impact you have as an individual, simply by where you put your money, is much better. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/local-organic-carbon-footprint-1.4389910) Also, there won't be 56 billion farm animals left when people go vegan. The process of converting people is slow and may take decades, even longer. But more and more people are turning vegan, meaning more and more people are taking their money elsewhere. The food chain is supported by supply and demand. When you buy a hamburger, you put money into the suppliers. The suppliers breed more animals to become a hamburger because you increased the demand for that. When you stop doing that, the suppliers won't breed more animals because the demand is going down and they'd lose more money if they kept on breeding animals. Today, there is 56 billion farm animals because the demand for 56 billion farm animals is there. When that demand goes down, which it is doing btw, the number will be smaller because the suppliers aren't breeding as many animals anymore, simply because they won't earn money from it. It is very simple math, just like any other industry, this industry isn't different. The 56 billion farm animals only exist because of the demand, nothing else, when the demand goes down, they stop being bred and the numbers shrink.

 

[Jinxiest]

This is literally like talking to a brick wall jesus christ i cba to respond properly anymore, have fun being vegan or whatever






also you ignored the part about cartels exploiting farmers

 

[Icey]