vegans are smarter than meat eaters
- Thread starter ellilliv
- Start date
- Status
SaintlyStorm16
New Member
Hi thought I'd weigh with my own bits after reading through the posts and various arguments though its turned into some good memes.
So 1 I guess: The point on the avocado industry as I think jinxiest's getting at is that simple switching demand to vegan products like avocados will simply cause equal human suffering in place of animal due to the major increase in demand.
2: Im really not sure you understand the difference between genetically modified and selectively breed, furthermore what you are suggesting is that in 1950 we had already developed the necessary technology such as CRSPR which was not actually invited till the later 1990s, which is all in all very misleading.
While you are correct in some degree with that if everyone bought locally internal demand would rise and pressure be put on them to expand operations, I think any sensible person would agree that buying locally does not entail doing so 100%, but rather switching between store and locally creating a healthy balance one that reduces need for battery farming and the like and supporting local farmers.
Animals were not put here for us and we not them, the are here as we are through a complex natural system that established a clear predator dynamic with for much of our early history animals being the method of survival, the advent of agriculture provided a exit for this put not a complete one, but it is undeniable that the cheapening of meat allowed less money to be spent on food helping people. Veganism has not reached a level where it can easily or cheaply replace meat as a dietary staple in most parts of the world so again arguable it is a necessity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47064626
Also perception that locally grown foods are more expensive is incorrect as local food sold is usually statistically less expensive than comparable non-local food sold at nearby supermarkets. https://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1160&context=honorsprojects
3: Saying again that cows are raped reminds me of that terrible peta ad where the equated sexual assault victims to cows being artificially inseminated. If you want to consider it rape yourself fine but when talking about it try to use the proper term. And for as much as it can be considered cruel and invasive, for the industry it is necessary as a farmer can't wait for a bull to come along and impregnate every one of his cows. And yes there is high demand for it, as there was for avocados, for cashews, etc it is human practice for someone something to be exploited in a manner that provides the most benefit for the other.
4-5: The video you point out here with those animals waking up and being confined during the tasing in the uk is in breach of guidelines and would be investigated, the meat industry is the killing of animals so it will never be pretty and nor will it ever be gone so these methods were implemented to cause the least amount of suffering. And Ive already address that a vegan diet is several more times more expensive for someone to live on so is not a option for some people and therefore meat is a necessity to some.
Considering if we all were to switch by 2050 there would be clear benefits but the level of investment and cooperation by governments not only to re forest and naturise pasture land alone would be massive, not to mention the impact on those people who rely on the meat industry for jobs needing assistance transitioning to a new career, should nations fail to provide clear career alternatives and subsidies for former livestock-related employees, we'd face significant unemployment and social upheaval, especially in rural communities with close ties to the industry. Plus around one-third of the world’s land is composed of arid and semi-arid rangeland that can only support animal agriculture, without such live stock life would likely become impossible for some people.
Regarding your point on the health benefits its true but to an extent with the issue that Animal products contain more nutrients per calorie than rice or others, so having a possible replacement would be important with over 2 billion undernourished people, going vegetarian globally possibly create a health crisis in the developing world, because where would the micronutrients come from.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian
edit: also why would anyone purposely dox themselves by providing you with examples of farms nearby them
2nd edit Just a note but your sources are incredibly biased and the cow milking video YouTube may not be a great example since she has been found to promote harassment to farmers and their family. And the one news source you link is a opinion piece not a reporting of facts.
So 1 I guess: The point on the avocado industry as I think jinxiest's getting at is that simple switching demand to vegan products like avocados will simply cause equal human suffering in place of animal due to the major increase in demand.
2: Im really not sure you understand the difference between genetically modified and selectively breed, furthermore what you are suggesting is that in 1950 we had already developed the necessary technology such as CRSPR which was not actually invited till the later 1990s, which is all in all very misleading.
While you are correct in some degree with that if everyone bought locally internal demand would rise and pressure be put on them to expand operations, I think any sensible person would agree that buying locally does not entail doing so 100%, but rather switching between store and locally creating a healthy balance one that reduces need for battery farming and the like and supporting local farmers.
Animals were not put here for us and we not them, the are here as we are through a complex natural system that established a clear predator dynamic with for much of our early history animals being the method of survival, the advent of agriculture provided a exit for this put not a complete one, but it is undeniable that the cheapening of meat allowed less money to be spent on food helping people. Veganism has not reached a level where it can easily or cheaply replace meat as a dietary staple in most parts of the world so again arguable it is a necessity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47064626
Also perception that locally grown foods are more expensive is incorrect as local food sold is usually statistically less expensive than comparable non-local food sold at nearby supermarkets. https://scholarworks.gvsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1160&context=honorsprojects
3: Saying again that cows are raped reminds me of that terrible peta ad where the equated sexual assault victims to cows being artificially inseminated. If you want to consider it rape yourself fine but when talking about it try to use the proper term. And for as much as it can be considered cruel and invasive, for the industry it is necessary as a farmer can't wait for a bull to come along and impregnate every one of his cows. And yes there is high demand for it, as there was for avocados, for cashews, etc it is human practice for someone something to be exploited in a manner that provides the most benefit for the other.
4-5: The video you point out here with those animals waking up and being confined during the tasing in the uk is in breach of guidelines and would be investigated, the meat industry is the killing of animals so it will never be pretty and nor will it ever be gone so these methods were implemented to cause the least amount of suffering. And Ive already address that a vegan diet is several more times more expensive for someone to live on so is not a option for some people and therefore meat is a necessity to some.
Considering if we all were to switch by 2050 there would be clear benefits but the level of investment and cooperation by governments not only to re forest and naturise pasture land alone would be massive, not to mention the impact on those people who rely on the meat industry for jobs needing assistance transitioning to a new career, should nations fail to provide clear career alternatives and subsidies for former livestock-related employees, we'd face significant unemployment and social upheaval, especially in rural communities with close ties to the industry. Plus around one-third of the world’s land is composed of arid and semi-arid rangeland that can only support animal agriculture, without such live stock life would likely become impossible for some people.
Regarding your point on the health benefits its true but to an extent with the issue that Animal products contain more nutrients per calorie than rice or others, so having a possible replacement would be important with over 2 billion undernourished people, going vegetarian globally possibly create a health crisis in the developing world, because where would the micronutrients come from.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian
edit: also why would anyone purposely dox themselves by providing you with examples of farms nearby them
2nd edit Just a note but your sources are incredibly biased and the cow milking video YouTube may not be a great example since she has been found to promote harassment to farmers and their family. And the one news source you link is a opinion piece not a reporting of facts.
Last edited:
CommanderBox
Sr. Moderator
I'm locking the thread - Disregarding the thoughtful posts spread throughout the thread like the post above this one; ^^^
The whole thread has turned into a catalyst for flaming and bashing veganism. Its impact has sent ripples throughout the forums of sly comments and mean spirited posts, but that shouldn't be how we handle things. We can have thoughtful discussions without making fun of the subject matter and those who support it. That requires a certain level of respect for everyone involved though.
So, let's try not to make this thread an example of threads to come in the future.
The whole thread has turned into a catalyst for flaming and bashing veganism. Its impact has sent ripples throughout the forums of sly comments and mean spirited posts, but that shouldn't be how we handle things. We can have thoughtful discussions without making fun of the subject matter and those who support it. That requires a certain level of respect for everyone involved though.
So, let's try not to make this thread an example of threads to come in the future.
- Status